For once I agree with you Randy! It is silly that these illeagle imigrants have all these rights. the problem is that there is a trade imbalance and the allready subsidised farmers can't survive without them. That is why a guest worker program might be a good thing. However it would be better to cure the trade imbalance...

Holy. Shit. Wow. Alrighty then. Well done! :)

the really funny thing is that a lot of illegal's DO pay taxes. Send their kids to school. (and don't get sent home(if they have a home in their country of origin(we assume they do since the so called coyote's charge quiet a sum)))

Ps. Did you know that in order to become a citizen you have to pass a civics exam roughly equivalent to high school honors civics. legal immigrants know more about our government that 90+% of the natives in this country...

Basically, i see them protesting cause the ones that are here dont want to get thrown out. I think that the U.S. saying ok, all of you 11 or 12 million, leave now, is a bit harsh. True, they're here illeagally, they did violate laws, but to totally deport them with nothing of which they've earned is not the way to go. And i guess i feel more this way cause of this...There is a familly at my job that moved here 'legally' 10 years ago with temp VISA's. When it was time to re-new, they were denied. The guy is a certified civil engineer has three kids, a wife, and has established a life here. He pays his taxes, on his wages, on his house, and on everything else that any of us pay. Given, most of these illeagals are like this, but people that come here like him, i think deserve more.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that fully. The first problem I have is that one of our local radio stations had a reporter on the scene in Seattle for the march: most of the ppl think there are more or less than 50 stars on the flag. An alarming number of people didn't even know what the march was for. OK, fine.

Either way, they're here illegally: how can you sanction a protest for that? I mean if a dude evades taxes for five years but worked hard during them: should he have the right to not be prosecuted because he worked hard for those years? That's kinda what you're suggesting here, especially from a taxes point of view. And the govt isn't even saying "throw them in jail" - they're saying "go back to your country" and excuse us while we secure our border so you can't come back in [without legally coming over].

And here's the capper: for all his fuck ups lately, Bush pitching a better deal than he has to by not demanding deportation, per se - he's offering a choice: work towards citizenship, pay your back taxes, and you can stay. But people are pissed about THAT. And closing the border. And for taking away "immigrant rights" even though they are technically not even part of the government. Retain their human rights? Absolutely. Civil rights? Er, well, can I sit here, not pay taxes and call myself a citizen? Hah! It's being pitched like we the illegals something because they were nice enough sneak into the nation illegally and for taking a job.

Sorry, but so far it's clear cut to me. That's not to say that I don't feel bad for people that will be caught in the crossfire but for feck's sake they SNUCK into the country! It's NOT a victimless crime!

Here is the thing, he has paid taxes the entire time he has been here. Furthermore I do believe that a good part of the illegals here need to go back. But honestly saying that they are impacting our economy in a negitive way i find a little hard to swallow. For one, a lot of these illegals have fake S.S. #'s to get jobs, of which taxes, social security, and medicare are taken out of (and how are they ever going to recover Social Security on a bunk #?). Second, the vast majority take jobs that neither you or i would ever consider taking. Driving down wages, in some fields yea i can see that, but example, construction, i work in a truss manufacturing company that probably has about an 85% workforce of 'immigrants'. A good portion of these make more than 20 an hour. Its hard work but, even at that wage most americans dont want it. So how much more as consumers are we going to have to pay for our produce, fast food, or housing? To me there just has to be another solution, other than telling them to get the fuck out.

Oh and on the earilier post, in the last sentance i meant, most illeagals are not like this.

So we advocate forging social security numbers because he pays his taxes? Plz tell me you're joking. I mean is that, 1 out of 10? 100? 1000? Who can say? Oh right, no one knows because we can't properly tax illegal aliens b/c they aren't supposed to be here! :)

I don't buy that "Americans don't want the jobs" line that is flying around this whole thing lately. I've got two problems with that notion in my mind: the first is that the rich ppl that are benefiting from illegal aliens are too cheap to pay a proper wage, so they're content to keep the status quo - if they had to open jobs up to US citizens they'd cry to their lobbiests. The second problem is that the body of ppl that match the skill set to take these very jobs are too busy being comfortable. "It's beneath me to take a job, when I get a govt check every month to sit here" right? Cut the welfare budget and that will sort itself out in short order. $20/hour is more than I was making when I started out in IT. And it was $14 more than I made when I was working in fast food. Ridiculous that ppl feel a job is beneath them.

AND for the record, I never said deport everyone. I said "if you don't like our laws get the fuck out". Meaning that they shouldn't be allowed to stay "as is". They're protesting the old law, the new law, and the proposed compromise and that's ridiculous. Get citizenship by working towards it. Pay your back taxes. Live up to the same responsibilities that the rest of us citizens have to live up to. All the rhetoric that keeps swirling in the new tells me that illegal aliens think that since they "snuck in" that they should not only get to stay but that they feel they shouldn't have to deal will all that "pesky American crap". And that's complete bunk.

Mark my words: you will see not ONE "leader" in Hollywood get involved in this mess: they don't want to lose their entire household staffs and they know that they can't afford to get involved in this one: too many red necks like me out there getting pissed off that this is even an issue to be argued about.

B.S.Any reasoning with you is just completely worthless, I'm not wasting my time here anymore. Go listen to some Rush Limbaugh and make youreself feel better.

How very interesting. Because I have an opinion, it means that I can't be reasoned with? Because I don't agree with you, you assume that you're wasting your time debating? Either you don't care about your position at all or you don't want to admit that I might be right on a few points. *shrug*

FWIW, I'm also for letting Florida leave the Union to hook up with Cuba, and then bringing in Northern Ireland with Ireland as the 50th state. Would make things a bit more lively. :)

Violet: You are so closed minded. You have to remember that people who think like Randy, and myself for that matter, do not make decisions on EMOTIONS. You feel bad for your friend, you think we should be nice and give away what CITIZENS have worked for, you think we are a being so mean by making people obey laws. We are not, but rather we are trying to make this country strong, stand by our laws, and treat people fairly. Have you done reaearch on the number of illegals in our jails? And for the crimes? Take a look at that. Pretty interesting when you start looking at the statistics of what it costs this country to support illegal aliens. aka people (not all) who take and take and take, and do not give back. Just something to think about.

Oh, btw, we are not really talking about people like your friend, but please do let him know he can apply for citizenship, pay his taxes under a REAL SSN, and lively happily ever after.

Ok, when you come in to the country legally you get a reall ss# that you pay real tax dollars into. Second, as of now he is still battling it out with immigration to fully leagalize his status here. And true, it might partially be emotion, but I think that all of this is just absurd. Im not saying to grant total amnesty, laws are in place for a reason. But there has to be a way to stop people from getting in, the people that are here need to i think at least be granted work visa's with expirations, and if they want to stay pay thier due and become a citizen. But to tell them to pay thier backd up taxed is retarded, because there is no real way of determining how long they've been here. Basically the way i feel is that there has to be some kind of agreement on both sides, cause going tottaly either way isnt right one way or another. Randy, i just feel you get overly defensive when anyone has a comment about you're post. I dont mind my state being left out of the union, hell, when Bush invades Iran, im outta here. Canada sounds good, lol.

Of course I'm defensive: I'm arguing my point of view. If I've taken the time to post something here it's because I'm at least somewhat passionate about it. If I'm going to defend my stance in the comments, it's that much more. The same way you've defended your PoV: same coin, different side.

FWIW, this whole thing started because Congress wanted to tighten the border: the initial uproar was because they wanted to re-inforce the southern AND northern US borders. With walls and check points. That bled into the Minutemen that are patrolling the border on their own. This entire part of the argument is lost in the noise of the House and the Senate. There was like a 2 mile gap in the border in San Diego: the majority of America didn't even know about it. The Feds went to fix it and the city told them no b/c it would be hurtful to the community. WTF is THAT about?

Yea, personally everyone is at fault. The government for not having enough funding to properly patrol the border, the illeagals for busting into the country, and the employers having a blind eye towards the situation. So they basically now they have to fix everything and no one wants to reason. And probably in the end its going to be hushed out and stay the same, hah.

Anybody who thinks that we need illegals to do jobs that Americans wiil not do has to search their souls and ask themselves why we are to good to perform these jobs? The answer is that they feel superior to the people that do them. Not such a long time ago there was another group of poeple that were only good for picking cotton and tobacco, We were to Good for that! think about it, If you support cheap illegal labor You're an elitist and the same as the plantation owners of days gone by. I hope you can live with yourselves.

Hahahah. Oi, ok.

I have been a flooring contractor for 30 years. Now Im looking for a new line of work as the illegals have cut the pay to half of what it was 2 years ago. These SOB live 20 to a house send all there money to there family in another country. They dont pay taxes, and they are all laughing at America. If bombs and war fell on America do you honestly think any of them would pick up a gun and fight? Hell no they would run there sorry asses right back to Mexico! I say if you have not paid your dues as our fore fathers all did then get the FUCK OUT !!! When we catch them they should be charged with a crime for every law they broke, including tax fraud. If we all continue to sit on are ass and talk about it they will continue to take our jobs strip our economy and thumb there nose at the principals that our nation was built on. What about our sons and daughters and what about tomarrow...

I am sick of listening to all these liberal morons who can't see pasted their noses! There is no legal ground to stand on for these illegal, that is why they ARE ILLEGALS!! I find NO reason to give these people anything but a ride back to the boarder, once and for all! Furthermore, these people should pay for the ride with the loss of any future consideration of their return!! As for their U.S. born children,( 1st they MUST leave with their illegal parents, because they are dependents, and the parents MUST support them 'til they are 18 ). I would be in favor of treating the offspring as illegal, by default!! This after all is not the child’s fault that he/she was born in the USA, so where does it say we have the RIGHT, or OBLIGATION to tear the offspring of these ILLEGALS from them as they are thrown out of this country?? As Plan "B" on this issue if it would be deemed unconstitutional, would be that when these offspring become 18 years of age, they re-enter the country on their own. These Mexicans are the ethnic group to dare break into the USA, totally ignoring the sanctity of our borders. The only group to attempt to settle in the USA and shun our national language ( ENGLISH FOR YOU BLEEDING HEARTS OUT THERE ). This has cost the tax payers of the USA more $ then anyone cares to count, just in translations alone. Dollars that no other ethnic group before them has cost!!! How stupid we are!!! These no nothing ignorant bums have invaded this country without even building a Trojan horse!!! They have accomplished this by exploiting our greed!! In order to get the crops in cheaply, and other services provided cheaply, the greedy among us have turned our backs on what is right, and are too blind to see the BIG PICTURE!!! Wake up, THE PRICE IS YOUR COUNTRY!!! If the LEAGAL people of the USA can not see this, then BEAM ME UP SCOTTY!!